It’s tough to watch your funds losing value in a tough market, but cashing out an IRA before you’ve reached retirement age is going to hurt you even more. Sign up for the Ask the Expert e-mail newsletter Question: I’m 57 and retired and the value of my IRA rollover keeps going down. Should I just take my money out now and pay any charges, or should I just let it sit and lose more money as stocks decline? –Lloyd, Niles, Michigan Answer: How about doing neither? You present this situation as if you have only two choices. That’s not the case, though, which is good for you since I don’t think either of the courses of action you’re considering are very good. Let’s deal with the first option, just cashing out your IRA rollover. That would be about the absolute worst thing you could do. Why? Well, first you would owe taxes on whatever portion of your account’s value consists of pre-tax contributions and investment gains (which, if you’re like most people, means all or nearly all of your account balance). What’s more, since you’re under age 59 1/2, you would also owe a 10% penalty for early withdrawal of your IRA funds. Besides, even if you pull the money from your IRA, you still have to address the question of how to re-invest that money. In short, you would be in the same position you’re in now, except that you would have given up a big chunk of your account to the IRS and you would no longer enjoy tax-deferred compounding on any gains your IRA might generate in the future. Now let’s examine your second option, just letting your money sit where it is. That’s definitely a better choice than cashing out, since you’re retaining the tax advantages of an IRA. And, on the surface at least, this option could be a sensible move. After all, investment advisers often tell their clients that “staying the course” is the best approach in uncertain and volatile times like these. But advice like “stay the course” makes sense only if you’ve gone into the downturn with a bona fide investment strategy that you set in advance. If you have created a diversified mix of stocks and bonds that’s appropriate given your age, goals, risk tolerance and time horizon - and you believe your strategy still makes sense - then by all means hang in there. You don’t want to abandon a sensible long-term strategy just because of short-term turmoil. But the fact is that many investors haven’t gone into this market downturn with a coherent strategy. Many people don’t have a well-thought-out portfolio. They have a haphazard collection of investments that they chose because a particular stock was mentioned by some pundit on TV or because a fund popped up on list of a top performers. In short, they haven’t employed the concept of asset allocation to create a portfolio with different investments that work together and hedge risk. A hodgepodge of holdings can generate decent returns when a rising market is lifting all boats. But it can get swamped by losses and leave you floundering when the investing seas get turbulent. So what do I recommend you do? Well, if your IRA funds are actually part of a well-balanced portfolio that you put together before this downturn began and you think that your mix still makes sense, then I don’t see any reason to begin making radical moves. You may continue to take some losses, but it’s more important that you’re solidly positioned for the long-term. I think you’re better off sticking with your plan than trying to figure out where to move your money every time market conditions change. That’s a futile guessing game. But if you don’t have an actual investing strategy - and judging by your question I suspect you don’t - then the first thing you need to do is create one. Begin by thinking about your goals. Since this is an IRA we’re talking about and you’re 57, I assume you’ll be relying on this money for income throughout retirement. That means you want enough of your IRA in bonds to provide some ballast in times like these, but you also want to own stocks that can provide long-term growth to maintain your purchasing power in the face of inflation. After all, you may be spending 30 or more years in retirement. Generally, I’d say that someone your age should have roughly 60% or so of his portfolio in a broadly diversified group of stocks or stock funds (large and small stocks, growth and value) and 40% in bonds (most likely short- to intermediate-term so you don’t get clobbered if interest rates rise). But you can adjust your mix based, among other things, on what other resources you have to draw on for retirement income and how much additional risk you’re willing to take for extra return or how much return you’re willing to give up for greater security. If you’re not comfortable with the idea of building your own portfolio, then you might consider investing your IRA in a target-retirement fund. You simply choose a fund with a date that roughly corresponds to the year you plan to retire, and you get a stocks-bonds mix appropriate for your age. By the way, one other advantage of keeping your money in an account like an IRA is that you can rejigger your portfolio if necessary without fear of generating a tax bill, as you don’t pay tax until you withdraw your money. So banish any thoughts about cashing out your IRA or shifting your money around every time the market soars or dives. Instead, take the portfolio-building approach I recommend. It won’t completely immunize you from short-term losses, but it can offer enough protection to get you through difficult times like these while also positioning you to capitalize on the eventual rebound. Got a question? Ask the expert. Filed under Uncategorized
Posted by kpantelides 6:29 pm 24 Comments
Good move Daniel. I just cashed out all my retirement accounts, converted them to gold, and buried it all in the back yard. Posted By JC, Chicago, IL : April 27, 2008 6:49 pm
Come on, asset allocation is the best strategy for the majority of retail investors. Market timing may work for some (I do that myself, and often feel annoyed by my bank’s attempts to direct me to their model). However, one needs both aptitude and genuine interest in the market moves to stand a chance in that game. For an expert, it would be irresponsible to recommend anything but asset allocation, unless talking to a sophisticated investor; and the latter does not need generic advice in the first place. Posted By Michael Forest, Toronto, Canada : April 14, 2008 3:26 pm
What I think is “ironic” here,is that if any of these people were TRULY watching the market(S) (notice….the “s” is capitalized, because you can’t simply look at one piece of the puzzle) SOMEONE would have mentioned gold (since it has more than tripled in the last few years) and/or other precious metals! I just moved my IRA, without any penalties, into a gold IRA with Swiss America, and I actually bought REAL METAL not ETF’s which are still tied to the stock market….. anyway I think all of these financial geniuses (lol) should take a look at the dollar and realize exactly how dependent the stock market is upon the dollars SURVIVAL (If you wonder what I mean… look up “North American Union” on youtube….) Posted By Daniel, Scottsdale, AZ : April 14, 2008 12:54 pm
I have to agree with other comments here; is good to sell the stock and sit in money market funds or, and this is perfectly legal, put your IRA money in a bank account. Mutual funds generate great fee income for investment managers (as do stocks you bought but are held in a brokerage). Over time you can see up to 60% of your gains eaten up in fees. Be careful where you invest and don’t believe in tides that lift all boats. That statement is from the Jack Kemps and Ronald Reagans of the world and we are still paying the national debt that came with that lunacy of thought. Posted By Anonymous : April 14, 2008 8:31 am
How can the “expert” not know about taking substantial equal payments of your IRA prior to age 59 1/2? Any 22 year old kid who has passed a series 6 knows this basic information. Seems about right for CNN’s level of expertise.. Posted By Jon, Indianapolis Indiana : April 13, 2008 7:05 pm
this answer man is an obvious mouth piece for the coroperate government.if you can read any daily business papers take what you have left and run like hell. put it in something you can touch and feel.look up meaning of fiat money is what you own. Posted By `marshall nc : April 13, 2008 6:48 pm
Wall Street is basically Las Vegas in a business suit. Posted By Reyna, Los Angeles, CA : April 13, 2008 1:55 am
This would be a good time to consider a self-directed IRA and diversifying 30-50% of his portfolio into real estate in one of the top 1% markets in the US. The top 1% have been practically immune to the real estate slowdown. $50,000 can buy over $400,000 in real estate. If the property values double in 8 years, which could easily happen, the investor would have an extra $400,000 to retire on, which could be rolled into cash-flow properties yielding $120,000 a year or more in passive income - without withdrawing from the principal. Worst case scenario, the investor could gain only $200,000 or so for his $50,000 investment, but that is highly unlikely. In addition, the investor would be getting an extra $25,000 in tax deductions over and above the tax benefits of an IRA. Tenants would be making the mortgage payments. The advantages are so obvious, it is a mystery why so few investors even take the time to get informed about it. From 1997-2007, savvy real estate investors earned 700% to over 1,000% on their money, while S&P investors earned 88%. The investor should contact a professional real estate financial advisor. Posted By Bob Sharpe, Arcadia, CA : April 12, 2008 4:31 pm
I have to agree with JC, the financial media…including planners and asset managers have convinced the average investor that being as much as 80% invested in U.S. equities is a SURE THING because of past perfomrance. Like their real estate cousins…the line that you “can’t lose” in the long run is simply a guess that as we can see…isn’t always true. What people today fail to realize is that the markets are much more global and diversified than they were 10, 20, 30 years ago and investors MUST consider foreign equity, currency, and debt, as well as hard and soft commodities and other alternative investments here in the U.S. more carefully. As an example…U.S. financial preferreds are paying over 7% right now and their are some great convertible preferreds as well…who’s touting them now to the average investor? Anyone? From here on out the average investor is also going to have to take some more risk and actually try to do some market timing as well. Look at trend lines, bollinger bands, moving averages…etc. The old line about just holding on until the cows come home is deadly in a sideways market. Timing the market now is essential to getting a decent return, and unfortunately that means if you want a better return…your gonna have to up the risk a little. Otherwise for the next few years…you may make nothing at all. Posted By C.C, Chicago, IL : April 12, 2008 10:27 am
What if there are factors such as this: The Middle East and all big Oil continues to do the controlled bleed on the world economies by continuously raising oil prices to the verge of recession in all large markets. Most people can’t ever plan on prospering and therefore the US economy and other countries can never prosper. Right now, a large percent of Americans are gas poor. That number is on a continuous rise. As a result, I don’t see a future for the stock market. I took 90% on my money out of the market and am settling on the 3-6% returns of CD’s, bonds and paying off debt. What I left in the market I wish was all in Exxon stock. Posted By Dave, Plainfield, Indiana : April 11, 2008 5:53 pm
I just pulled all my money and and buried it in my back yard where it will be safe. Posted By Matt So Charleston WV : April 11, 2008 3:19 pm
I saw the downturn coming and transferred out of stocks into money markets. “Experts” are doing us all a disservice by cuddling up with Wall Street and all this nonsense about a balanced portfolio. At best, the stock market will be moving sideways over the next two quarters. And we may be heading for a Japan-style stagnant period where there will be nowhere for money to make money (and this might last for years). The big news is that the American consumer is all tapped out - so all this talk of a rebound is a lot of hot air. Posted By Rob Ryder Ojai, Ca. : April 11, 2008 2:15 pm
Thank G-D ALMIGHTY for Certificate of Deposit Accounts. I’ve never Lost a DIME investing solely in Certificate of Deposit Accounts that are FDIC insured up to $100K. And certainly, while the rates of return are somewhat dismal, at least I don’t have to deal with the Las Vegas, NV Gambling Casino effect of the Stock Market. Playing the Stock Market is exactly like shooting craps or playing the roulette wheel in a Las Vegas, NV Casino. And as for the Financial Planning Experts, well in my most humble opinion, they’re nothing more than a bunch of BLOOD SUCKERS. Look people, I’ve amassed a Net Worth of Over $500K (to include a condo that I currently own + $200K tax-deferred savings and another $200K in taxable savings), and I did it ALL BY SOLELY INVESTING IN CD’s. You just can’t beat it. And guess what? I am only 47-Years Old. My Net Worth should far surpass $1 Million by the time I’m ready to retire. So Keep GAMBLING with your stock and bond portfolio’s people. I would rather play the ‘horse races’ than the stock market. Posted By Mickey, Brooklyn, NY : April 11, 2008 1:31 pm
I am retired and on a fixed income and my scenario is different. (Keen sense of the obvious.. eh?) I am paying for a “managed” portfolio and watching it loose value. It is very hard to hold and waitunder these conditions. The only advice my “financial advisor” recommends is to hold on. One would think a portfolio manager would take some kind of action during these times.. not my team. What is your recommendation? Posted By Darryl, Howell, MI : April 11, 2008 9:58 am
@JC in Chicago: Are you talking about the Dow Jones Industrial Average? Because “Dow Jones” doesn’t actually have any stocks. All they do is publish lists of stocks that are intended to represent segments of the market. the Dow Jones Industrial Average is a weighted average of the stock prices of 30 large companies that are widely held. I would not exactly call that a diversified list of stocks. The S&P 500 on the other hand is a list of 500 companies and is highly diversified. the Wilshire 5000 index covers just about every company in the stock market. Investing in a properly diversified portfolio of stock funds (which the author was recommending) is not the same thing as buying shares of the 20 companies on the DJI. It is not a foolproof approach, but neither is it as insane as you seem to think. On the whole, a broadly diverse portfolio of stocks will appreciate much faster than a comparable portfolio of Bonds. Striking the proper balance between the two is the key to both stability and returns that beat inflation. @B. Thompson in Alabama: Posted By Michael, Los Angeles, CA : April 10, 2008 9:40 pm
Wow… the weirdos are coming out of the woodwork on this one. Walter is correct, the email presented a false dichotomy. But regarding some of the reader comments about stocks, I think they are hyperventilating. We aren’t even below DOW 12000. And the guy who tried to cherry-pick one bad 15 year period in stocks was pathetic. Talk about having an agenda. For me, I’ll continue to plow my money into individual large-cap US companies that I know to be solid and reputable (IBM, XOM, PG, WMT). The S&P 500 index is also my friend. I’m 30 years old and have a 100 k to work with so far. The doomsday scenario act is just not very impressive to me. Posted By Sam Houston, Eugene OR : April 10, 2008 4:33 pm
JC in Chicago, Posted By TR - Denver - CO : April 10, 2008 4:32 pm
JC - Asset allocation is a lazy man’s way of investing? Sure it might not take a lot of effort (who really wants to pour over worksheets trying to pick the best stock!?) but I’m sure the people in 2000 though who had a suitable AA were grateful they hadn’t picked “hot stocks”. Also when you talk about shifting money around - Walter is suggesting he move it ONCE to an appropriate AA, and then rebalance periodically(I’m assuming). Nicole - In this situation, the annuity would have to be within the IRA, as he couldn’t transfer it out without penalties. Having a tax-deferred vehicle (Annuity) being held within another tax-deferred vehicle (IRA) doesn’t make sense. I happen to agree with your advice Walter. If Lloyd is just freaking out watching his account drop and watching too much depressing news (sorry CNN - your website is the worst for titles!), then proper AA is suitable. If Lloyd needs the income now as he’s retired, then he should look into a 72t option to minimize the penalties. Go Walter. BTW - for all you Dave Ramsey fans, I’m Debt free and STILL loving it!!! Window stickers all OVER my car!!! Posted By CFP(R), Chicago, IL : April 10, 2008 3:03 pm
What about annuities? Indexed annuities to be specific (as long as there are no fees and no outrageous surrender charges). You can get the benefits of a stockmarket year where there are massive gains, but can never lose any money on it…it’s a perfect retirement income vehicle! Posted By Nicole, Sidney, Maine : April 10, 2008 2:11 pm
I am tired of financial planning “experts” giving out the bad advice that investing a large part of a retirement portfolio in stocks is always appropriate. The argument that “shifting your money around every time the market soars or dives” is a bad idea completely ignores the fact that there are long-term trends in the stock market. If you had invested in the Dow-Jones stocks around 1968 and held on for about 15 years, your return on that investment would have been ZERO! Actually, computing in the high inflation we had during the 70’s and early 80’s, return on stocks would have paid pack FAR LESS THAN ZERO! Common stock CAN be a good investment, and it can also be a VERY POOR investment. Advice such as that given here is just a lazy man’s way of “managing” investments. Posted By JC, Chicago, IL : April 10, 2008 1:13 pm
My IRA and 401K are sitting safely in money market funds - have been there well before the stock and credit crash. May be earning smaller returns but I’m not losing money like the people who left their money in the stock and bond market. Posted By B. Thompson - Hoover - AL : April 10, 2008 12:52 pm
Walter forgot one option - that is to begin to take equal distributions over 5-years which avoids the tax penalty. Posted By Tom Hilde, Rapid City, SD. : April 10, 2008 12:27 pm
While the 57 year old retiree is waiting around for his IRA value to recover, assuming he has some extra cash and the rollover is in a Traditional IRA, now might be a good time to convert a portion to a Roth IRA. He will be paying taxes on a lower value and will enjoy tax free growth once the market recovers. Posted By Bob Marason, Wyomissing, PA : April 10, 2008 11:38 am
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congratulations, the people buying gold now are subscribing to the winning strategy of buy high, sell low! Right now, the market is expecting continuous dollar declines, but once the funds rate is held steady, these expectations will shatter, taking commodity prices with them.